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  17 <H1><A NAME="SEC56" HREF="gettext_toc.html#TOC56">The Translator's View</A></H1>
  18
  19
  20
  21 <H2><A NAME="SEC57" HREF="gettext_toc.html#TOC57">Introduction 0</A></H2>
  22
  23 <P>
  24 GNU is going international!  The Translation Project is a way
  25 to get maintainers, translators and users all together, so GNU will
  26 gradually become able to speak many native languages.
  27
  28 </P>
  29 <P>
  30 The GNU <CODE>gettext</CODE> tool set contains <EM>everything</EM> maintainers
  31 need for internationalizing their packages for messages.  It also
  32 contains quite useful tools for helping translators at localizing
  33 messages to their native language, once a package has already been
  34 internationalized.
  35
  36 </P>
  37 <P>
  38 To achieve the Translation Project, we need many interested
  39 people who like their own language and write it well, and who are also
  40 able to synergize with other translators speaking the same language.
  41 If you'd like to volunteer to <EM>work</EM> at translating messages,
  42 please send mail to your translating team.
  43
  44 </P>
  45 <P>
  46 Each team has its own mailing list, courtesy of Linux
  47 International.  You may reach your translating team at the address
  48 <TT>`<VAR>ll</VAR>@li.org'</TT>, replacing <VAR>ll</VAR> by the two-letter ISO 639
  49 code for your language.  Language codes are <EM>not</EM> the same as
  50 country codes given in ISO 3166.  The following translating teams
  51 exist:
  52
  53 </P>
  54
  55 <BLOCKQUOTE>
  56 <P>
  57 Chinese <CODE>zh</CODE>, Czech <CODE>cs</CODE>, Danish <CODE>da</CODE>, Dutch <CODE>nl</CODE>,
  58 Esperanto <CODE>eo</CODE>, Finnish <CODE>fi</CODE>, French <CODE>fr</CODE>, Irish
  59 <CODE>ga</CODE>, German <CODE>de</CODE>, Greek <CODE>el</CODE>, Italian <CODE>it</CODE>,
  60 Japanese <CODE>ja</CODE>, Indonesian <CODE>in</CODE>, Norwegian <CODE>no</CODE>, Polish
  61 <CODE>pl</CODE>, Portuguese <CODE>pt</CODE>, Russian <CODE>ru</CODE>, Spanish <CODE>es</CODE>,
  62 Swedish <CODE>sv</CODE> and Turkish <CODE>tr</CODE>.
  63 </BLOCKQUOTE>
  64
  65 <P>
  66 For example, you may reach the Chinese translating team by writing to
  67 <TT>`zh@li.org'</TT>.  When you become a member of the translating team
  68 for your own language, you may subscribe to its list.  For example,
  69 Swedish people can send a message to <TT>`sv-request@li.org'</TT>,
  70 having this message body:
  71
  72 </P>
  73
  74 <PRE>
  75 subscribe
  76 </PRE>
  77
  78 <P>
  79 Keep in mind that team members should be interested in <EM>working</EM>
  80 at translations, or at solving translational difficulties, rather than
  81 merely lurking around.  If your team does not exist yet and you want to
  82 start one, please write to <TT>`gnu-translation@prep.ai.mit.edu'</TT>;
  83 you will then reach the GNU coordinator for all translator teams.
  84
  85 </P>
  86 <P>
  87 A handful of GNU packages have already been adapted and provided
  88 with message translations for several languages.  Translation
  89 teams have begun to organize, using these packages as a starting
  90 point.  But there are many more packages and many languages for
  91 which we have no volunteer translators.  If you would like to
  92 volunteer to work at translating messages, please send mail to
  93 <TT>`gnu-translation@prep.ai.mit.edu'</TT> indicating what language(s)
  94 you can work on.
  95
  96 </P>
  97
  98
  99 <H2><A NAME="SEC58" HREF="gettext_toc.html#TOC58">Introduction 1</A></H2>
 100
 101 <P>
 102 This is now official, GNU is going international!  Here is the
 103 announcement submitted for the January 1995 GNU Bulletin:
 104
 105 </P>
 106
 107 <BLOCKQUOTE>
 108 <P>
 109 A handful of GNU packages have already been adapted and provided
 110 with message translations for several languages.  Translation
 111 teams have begun to organize, using these packages as a starting
 112 point.  But there are many more packages and many languages
 113 for which we have no volunteer translators.  If you'd like to
 114 volunteer to work at translating messages, please send mail to
 115 <SAMP>`gnu-translation@prep.ai.mit.edu'</SAMP> indicating what language(s)
 116 you can work on.
 117 </BLOCKQUOTE>
 118
 119 <P>
 120 This document should answer many questions for those who are curious
 121 about the process or would like to contribute.  Please at least skim
 122 over it, hoping to cut down a little of the high volume of e-mail
 123 generated by this collective effort towards GNU internationalization.
 124
 125 </P>
 126 <P>
 127 Most free programming which is widely shared is done in English, and
 128 currently, English is used as the main communicating language between
 129 national communities collaborating to the GNU project.  This very document
 130 is written in English.  This will not change in the foreseeable future.
 131
 132 </P>
 133 <P>
 134 However, there is a strong appetite from national communities for
 135 having more software able to write using national language and habits,
 136 and there is an on-going effort to modify GNU software in such a way
 137 that it becomes able to do so.  The experiments driven so far raised
 138 an enthusiastic response from pretesters, so we believe that GNU
 139 internationalization is dedicated to succeed.
 140
 141 </P>
 142 <P>
 143 For suggestion clarifications, additions or corrections to this
 144 document, please e-mail to <TT>`gnu-translation@prep.ai.mit.edu'</TT>.
 145
 146 </P>
 147
 148
 149 <H2><A NAME="SEC59" HREF="gettext_toc.html#TOC59">Discussions</A></H2>
 150
 151 <P>
 152 Facing this internationalization effort, a few users expressed their
 153 concerns.  Some of these doubts are presented and discussed, here.
 154
 155 </P>
 156
 157 <UL>
 158 <LI>Smaller groups
 159
 160 Some languages are not spoken by a very large number of people, so people
 161 speaking them sometimes consider that there may not be all that much
 162 demand such versions of free software packages.  Moreover, many people
 163 being <EM>into computers</EM>, in some countries, generally seem to prefer
 164 English versions of their software.
 165
 166 On the other end, people might enjoy their own language a lot, and be
 167 very motivated at providing to themselves the pleasure of having their
 168 beloved free software speaking their mother tongue.  They do themselves
 169 a personal favor, and do not pay that much attention to the number of
 170 people beneficiating of their work.
 171
 172 <LI>Misinterpretation
 173
 174 Other users are shy to push forward their own language, seeing in this
 175 some kind of misplaced propaganda.  Someone thought there must be some
 176 users of the language over the networks pestering other people with it.
 177
 178 But any spoken language is worth localization, because there are
 179 people behind the language for whom the language is important and
 180 dear to their hearts.
 181
 182 <LI>Odd translations
 183
 184 The biggest problem is to find the right translations so that
 185 everybody can understand the messages.  Translations are usually a
 186 little odd.  Some people get used to English, to the extent they may
 187 find translations into their own language "rather pushy, obnoxious
 188 and sometimes even hilarious."  As a French speaking man, I have
 189 the experience of those instruction manuals for goods, so poorly
 190 translated in French in Korea or Taiwan...
 191
 192 The fact is that we sometimes have to create a kind of national
 193 computer culture, and this is not easy without the collaboration of
 194 many people liking their mother tongue.  This is why translations are
 195 better achieved by people knowing and loving their own language, and
 196 ready to work together at improving the results they obtain.
 197
 198 <LI>Dependencies over the GPL
 199
 200 Some people wonder if using GNU <CODE>gettext</CODE> necessarily brings their package
 201 under the protective wing of the GNU General Public License, when they
 202 do not want to make their program free, or want other kinds of freedom.
 203 The simplest answer is yes.
 204
 205 The mere marking of localizable strings in a package, or conditional
 206 inclusion of a few lines for initialization, is not really including
 207 GPL'ed code.  However, the localization routines themselves are under
 208 the GPL and would bring the remainder of the package under the GPL
 209 if they were distributed with it.  So, I presume that, for those
 210 for which this is a problem, it could be circumvented by letting to
 211 the end installers the burden of assembling a package prepared for
 212 localization, but not providing the localization routines themselves.
 213
 214 </UL>
 215
 216
 217
 218 <H2><A NAME="SEC60" HREF="gettext_toc.html#TOC60">Organization</A></H2>
 219
 220 <P>
 221 On a larger scale, the true solution would be to organize some kind of
 222 fairly precise set up in which volunteers could participate.  I gave
 223 some thought to this idea lately, and realize there will be some
 224 touchy points.  I thought of writing to Richard Stallman to launch
 225 such a project, but feel it might be good to shake out the ideas
 226 between ourselves first.  Most probably that Linux International has
 227 some experience in the field already, or would like to orchestrate
 228 the volunteer work, maybe.  Food for thought, in any case!
 229
 230 </P>
 231 <P>
 232 I guess we have to setup something early, somehow, that will help
 233 many possible contributors of the same language to interlock and avoid
 234 work duplication, and further be put in contact for solving together
 235 problems particular to their tongue (in most languages, there are many
 236 difficulties peculiar to translating technical English).  My Swedish
 237 contributor acknowledged these difficulties, and I'm well aware of
 238 them for French.
 239
 240 </P>
 241 <P>
 242 This is surely not a technical issue, but we should manage so the
 243 effort of locale contributors be maximally useful, despite the national
 244 team layer interface between contributors and maintainers.
 245
 246 </P>
 247 <P>
 248 The Translation Project needs some setup for coordinating language
 249 coordinators.  Localizing evolving programs will surely
 250 become a permanent and continuous activity in the free software community,
 251 once well started.
 252 The setup should be minimally completed and tested before GNU
 253 <CODE>gettext</CODE> becomes an official reality.  The e-mail address
 254 <TT>`translation@iro.umontreal.ca'</TT> has been setup for receiving
 255 offers from volunteers and general e-mail on these topics.  This address
 256 reaches the Translation Project coordinator.
 257
 258 </P>
 259
 260
 261
 262 <H3><A NAME="SEC61" HREF="gettext_toc.html#TOC61">Central Coordination</A></H3>
 263
 264 <P>
 265 I also think GNU will need sooner than it thinks, that someone setup
 266 a way to organize and coordinate these groups.  Some kind of group
 267 of groups.  My opinion is that it would be good that GNU delegates
 268 this task to a small group of collaborating volunteers, shortly.
 269 Perhaps in <TT>`gnu.announce'</TT> a list of this national committee's
 270 can be published.
 271
 272 </P>
 273 <P>
 274 My role as coordinator would simply be to refer to Ulrich any German
 275 speaking volunteer interested to localization of free software packages, and
 276 maybe helping national groups to initially organize, while maintaining
 277 national registries for until national groups are ready to take over.
 278 In fact, the coordinator should ease volunteers to get in contact with
 279 one another for creating national teams, which should then select
 280 one coordinator per language, or country (regionalized language).
 281 If well done, the coordination should be useful without being an
 282 overwhelming task, the time to put delegations in place.
 283
 284 </P>
 285
 286
 287 <H3><A NAME="SEC62" HREF="gettext_toc.html#TOC62">National Teams</A></H3>
 288
 289 <P>
 290 I suggest we look for volunteer coordinators/editors for individual
 291 languages.  These people will scan contributions of translation files
 292 for various programs, for their own languages, and will ensure high
 293 and uniform standards of diction.
 294
 295 </P>
 296 <P>
 297 From my current experience with other people in these days, those who
 298 provide localizations are very enthusiastic about the process, and are
 299 more interested in the localization process than in the program they
 300 localize, and want to do many programs, not just one.  This seems
 301 to confirm that having a coordinator/editor for each language is a
 302 good idea.
 303
 304 </P>
 305 <P>
 306 We need to choose someone who is good at writing clear and concise
 307 prose in the language in question.  That is hard--we can't check
 308 it ourselves.  So we need to ask a few people to judge each others'
 309 writing and select the one who is best.
 310
 311 </P>
 312 <P>
 313 I announce my prerelease to a few dozen people, and you would not
 314 believe all the discussions it generated already.  I shudder to think
 315 what will happen when this will be launched, for true, officially,
 316 world wide.  Who am I to arbitrate between two Czekolsovak users
 317 contradicting each other, for example?
 318
 319 </P>
 320 <P>
 321 I assume that your German is not much better than my French so that
 322 I would not be able to judge about these formulations.  What I would
 323 suggest is that for each language there is a group for people who
 324 maintain the PO files and judge about changes.  I suspect there will
 325 be cultural differences between how such groups of people will behave.
 326 Some will have relaxed ways, reach consensus easily, and have anyone
 327 of the group relate to the maintainers, while others will fight to
 328 death, organize heavy administrations up to national standards, and
 329 use strict channels.
 330
 331 </P>
 332 <P>
 333 The German team is putting out a good example.  Right now, they are
 334 maybe half a dozen people revising translations of each other and
 335 discussing the linguistic issues.  I do not even have all the names.
 336 Ulrich Drepper is taking care of coordinating the German team.
 337 He subscribed to all my pretest lists, so I do not even have to warn
 338 him specifically of incoming releases.
 339
 340 </P>
 341 <P>
 342 I'm sure, that is a good idea to get teams for each language working
 343 on translations. That will make the translations better and more
 344 consistent.
 345
 346 </P>
 347
 348
 349
 350 <H4><A NAME="SEC63" HREF="gettext_toc.html#TOC63">Sub-Cultures</A></H4>
 351
 352 <P>
 353 Taking French for example, there are a few sub-cultures around computers
 354 which developed diverging vocabularies.  Picking volunteers here and
 355 there without addressing this problem in an organized way, soon in the
 356 project, might produce a distasteful mix of internationalized programs,
 357 and possibly trigger endless quarrels among those who really care.
 358
 359 </P>
 360 <P>
 361 Keeping some kind of unity in the way French localization of
 362 internationalized programs is achieved is a difficult (and delicate) job.
 363 Knowing the latin character of French people (:-), if we take this
 364 the wrong way, we could end up nowhere, or spoil a lot of energies.
 365 Maybe we should begin to address this problem seriously <EM>before</EM>
 366 GNU <CODE>gettext</CODE> become officially published.  And I suspect that this
 367 means soon!
 368
 369 </P>
 370
 371
 372 <H4><A NAME="SEC64" HREF="gettext_toc.html#TOC64">Organizational Ideas</A></H4>
 373
 374 <P>
 375 I expect the next big changes after the official release.  Please note
 376 that I use the German translation of the short GPL message.  We need
 377 to set a few good examples before the localization goes out for true
 378 in the free software community.  Here are a few points to discuss:
 379
 380 </P>
 381
 382 <UL>
 383 <LI>
 384
 385 Each group should have one FTP server (at least one master).
 386
 387 <LI>
 388
 389 The files on the server should reflect the latest version (of
 390 course!) and it should also contain a RCS directory with the
 391 corresponding archives (I don't have this now).
 392
 393 <LI>
 394
 395 There should also be a ChangeLog file (this is more useful than the
 396 RCS archive but can be generated automatically from the later by
 397 Emacs).
 398
 399 <LI>
 400
 401 A <STRONG>core group</STRONG> should judge about questionable changes (for now
 402 this group consists solely by me but I ask some others occasionally;
 403 this also seems to work).
 404
 405 </UL>
 406
 407
 408
 409 <H3><A NAME="SEC65" HREF="gettext_toc.html#TOC65">Mailing Lists</A></H3>
 410
 411 <P>
 412 If we get any inquiries about GNU <CODE>gettext</CODE>, send them on to:
 413
 414 </P>
 415
 416 <PRE>
 417 <TT>`translation@iro.umontreal.ca'</TT>
 418 </PRE>
 419
 420 <P>
 421 The <TT>`*-pretest'</TT> lists are quite useful to me, maybe the idea could
 422 be generalized to many GNU, and non-GNU packages.  But each maintainer
 423 his/her way!
 424
 425 </P>
 426 <P>
 427 Fran@,{c}ois, we have a mechanism in place here at
 428 <TT>`gnu.ai.mit.edu'</TT> to track teams, support mailing lists for
 429 them and log members.  We have a slight preference that you use it.
 430 If this is OK with you, I can get you clued in.
 431
 432 </P>
 433 <P>
 434 Things are changing!  A few years ago, when Daniel Fekete and I
 435 asked for a mailing list for GNU localization, nested at the FSF, we
 436 were politely invited to organize it anywhere else, and so did we.
 437 For communicating with my pretesters, I later made a handful of
 438 mailing lists located at iro.umontreal.ca and administrated by
 439 <CODE>majordomo</CODE>.  These lists have been <EM>very</EM> dependable
 440 so far...
 441
 442 </P>
 443 <P>
 444 I suspect that the German team will organize itself a mailing list
 445 located in Germany, and so forth for other countries.  But before they
 446 organize for true, it could surely be useful to offer mailing lists
 447 located at the FSF to each national team.  So yes, please explain me
 448 how I should proceed to create and handle them.
 449
 450 </P>
 451 <P>
 452 We should create temporary mailing lists, one per country, to help
 453 people organize.  Temporary, because once regrouped and structured, it
 454 would be fair the volunteers from country bring back <EM>their</EM> list
 455 in there and manage it as they want.  My feeling is that, in the long
 456 run, each team should run its own list, from within their country.
 457 There also should be some central list to which all teams could
 458 subscribe as they see fit, as long as each team is represented in it.
 459
 460 </P>
 461
 462
 463 <H2><A NAME="SEC66" HREF="gettext_toc.html#TOC66">Information Flow</A></H2>
 464
 465 <P>
 466 There will surely be some discussion about this messages after the
 467 packages are finally released.  If people now send you some proposals
 468 for better messages, how do you proceed?  Jim, please note that
 469 right now, as I put forward nearly a dozen of localizable programs, I
 470 receive both the translations and the coordination concerns about them.
 471
 472 </P>
 473 <P>
 474 If I put one of my things to pretest, Ulrich receives the announcement
 475 and passes it on to the German team, who make last minute revisions.
 476 Then he submits the translation files to me <EM>as the maintainer</EM>.
 477 For free packages I do not maintain, I would not even hear about it.
 478 This scheme could be made to work for the whole Translation Project,
 479 I think.  For security reasons, maybe Ulrich (national coordinators,
 480 in fact) should update central registry kept at the Translation Project
 481 (Jim, me, or Len's recruits) once in a while.
 482
 483 </P>
 484 <P>
 485 In December/January, I was aggressively ready to internationalize
 486 all of GNU, giving myself the duty of one small GNU package per week
 487 or so, taking many weeks or months for bigger packages.  But it does
 488 not work this way.  I first did all the things I'm responsible for.
 489 I've nothing against some missionary work on other maintainers, but
 490 I'm also loosing a lot of energy over it--same debates over again.
 491
 492 </P>
 493 <P>
 494 And when the first localized packages are released we'll get a lot of
 495 responses about ugly translations :-).  Surely, and we need to have
 496 beforehand a fairly good idea about how to handle the information
 497 flow between the national teams and the package maintainers.
 498
 499 </P>
 500 <P>
 501 Please start saving somewhere a quick history of each PO file.  I know
 502 for sure that the file format will change, allowing for comments.
 503 It would be nice that each file has a kind of log, and references for
 504 those who want to submit comments or gripes, or otherwise contribute.
 505 I sent a proposal for a fast and flexible format, but it is not
 506 receiving acceptance yet by the GNU deciders.  I'll tell you when I
 507 have more information about this.
 508
 509 </P>
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