git.saurik.com Git - wxWidgets.git/blame_incremental - docs/html/gettext/gettext

... / ...

Commit	Line	Data
	1	<HTML>
	2	<HEAD>
	3	<!-- This HTML file has been created by texi2html 1.54
	4	from gettext.texi on 25 January 1999 -->
	5
	6	<TITLE>GNU gettext utilities - The Translator's View</TITLE>
	7	<link href="gettext_10.html" rel=Next>
	8	<link href="gettext_8.html" rel=Previous>
	9	<link href="gettext_toc.html" rel=ToC>
	10
	11	</HEAD>
	12	<BODY>
	13	<p>Go to the <A HREF="gettext_1.html">first</A>, <A HREF="gettext_8.html">previous</A>, <A HREF="gettext_10.html">next</A>, <A HREF="gettext_12.html">last</A> section, <A HREF="gettext_toc.html">table of contents</A>.
	14	<P><HR><P>
	15
	16
	17	<H1><A NAME="SEC56" HREF="gettext_toc.html#TOC56">The Translator's View</A></H1>
	18
	19
	20
	21	<H2><A NAME="SEC57" HREF="gettext_toc.html#TOC57">Introduction 0</A></H2>
	22
	23	<P>
	24	GNU is going international! The Translation Project is a way
	25	to get maintainers, translators and users all together, so GNU will
	26	gradually become able to speak many native languages.
	27
	28	</P>
	29	<P>
	30	The GNU <CODE>gettext</CODE> tool set contains <EM>everything</EM> maintainers
	31	need for internationalizing their packages for messages. It also
	32	contains quite useful tools for helping translators at localizing
	33	messages to their native language, once a package has already been
	34	internationalized.
	35
	36	</P>
	37	<P>
	38	To achieve the Translation Project, we need many interested
	39	people who like their own language and write it well, and who are also
	40	able to synergize with other translators speaking the same language.
	41	If you'd like to volunteer to <EM>work</EM> at translating messages,
	42	please send mail to your translating team.
	43
	44	</P>
	45	<P>
	46	Each team has its own mailing list, courtesy of Linux
	47	International. You may reach your translating team at the address
	48	<TT>`<VAR>ll</VAR>@li.org'</TT>, replacing <VAR>ll</VAR> by the two-letter ISO 639
	49	code for your language. Language codes are <EM>not</EM> the same as
	50	country codes given in ISO 3166. The following translating teams
	51	exist:
	52
	53	</P>
	54
	55	<BLOCKQUOTE>
	56	<P>
	57	Chinese <CODE>zh</CODE>, Czech <CODE>cs</CODE>, Danish <CODE>da</CODE>, Dutch <CODE>nl</CODE>,
	58	Esperanto <CODE>eo</CODE>, Finnish <CODE>fi</CODE>, French <CODE>fr</CODE>, Irish
	59	<CODE>ga</CODE>, German <CODE>de</CODE>, Greek <CODE>el</CODE>, Italian <CODE>it</CODE>,
	60	Japanese <CODE>ja</CODE>, Indonesian <CODE>in</CODE>, Norwegian <CODE>no</CODE>, Polish
	61	<CODE>pl</CODE>, Portuguese <CODE>pt</CODE>, Russian <CODE>ru</CODE>, Spanish <CODE>es</CODE>,
	62	Swedish <CODE>sv</CODE> and Turkish <CODE>tr</CODE>.
	63	</BLOCKQUOTE>
	64
	65	<P>
	66	For example, you may reach the Chinese translating team by writing to
	67	<TT>`zh@li.org'</TT>. When you become a member of the translating team
	68	for your own language, you may subscribe to its list. For example,
	69	Swedish people can send a message to <TT>`sv-request@li.org'</TT>,
	70	having this message body:
	71
	72	</P>
	73
	74	<PRE>
	75	subscribe
	76	</PRE>
	77
	78	<P>
	79	Keep in mind that team members should be interested in <EM>working</EM>
	80	at translations, or at solving translational difficulties, rather than
	81	merely lurking around. If your team does not exist yet and you want to
	82	start one, please write to <TT>`gnu-translation@prep.ai.mit.edu'</TT>;
	83	you will then reach the GNU coordinator for all translator teams.
	84
	85	</P>
	86	<P>
	87	A handful of GNU packages have already been adapted and provided
	88	with message translations for several languages. Translation
	89	teams have begun to organize, using these packages as a starting
	90	point. But there are many more packages and many languages for
	91	which we have no volunteer translators. If you would like to
	92	volunteer to work at translating messages, please send mail to
	93	<TT>`gnu-translation@prep.ai.mit.edu'</TT> indicating what language(s)
	94	you can work on.
	95
	96	</P>
	97
	98
	99	<H2><A NAME="SEC58" HREF="gettext_toc.html#TOC58">Introduction 1</A></H2>
	100
	101	<P>
	102	This is now official, GNU is going international! Here is the
	103	announcement submitted for the January 1995 GNU Bulletin:
	104
	105	</P>
	106
	107	<BLOCKQUOTE>
	108	<P>
	109	A handful of GNU packages have already been adapted and provided
	110	with message translations for several languages. Translation
	111	teams have begun to organize, using these packages as a starting
	112	point. But there are many more packages and many languages
	113	for which we have no volunteer translators. If you'd like to
	114	volunteer to work at translating messages, please send mail to
	115	<SAMP>`gnu-translation@prep.ai.mit.edu'</SAMP> indicating what language(s)
	116	you can work on.
	117	</BLOCKQUOTE>
	118
	119	<P>
	120	This document should answer many questions for those who are curious
	121	about the process or would like to contribute. Please at least skim
	122	over it, hoping to cut down a little of the high volume of e-mail
	123	generated by this collective effort towards GNU internationalization.
	124
	125	</P>
	126	<P>
	127	Most free programming which is widely shared is done in English, and
	128	currently, English is used as the main communicating language between
	129	national communities collaborating to the GNU project. This very document
	130	is written in English. This will not change in the foreseeable future.
	131
	132	</P>
	133	<P>
	134	However, there is a strong appetite from national communities for
	135	having more software able to write using national language and habits,
	136	and there is an on-going effort to modify GNU software in such a way
	137	that it becomes able to do so. The experiments driven so far raised
	138	an enthusiastic response from pretesters, so we believe that GNU
	139	internationalization is dedicated to succeed.
	140
	141	</P>
	142	<P>
	143	For suggestion clarifications, additions or corrections to this
	144	document, please e-mail to <TT>`gnu-translation@prep.ai.mit.edu'</TT>.
	145
	146	</P>
	147
	148
	149	<H2><A NAME="SEC59" HREF="gettext_toc.html#TOC59">Discussions</A></H2>
	150
	151	<P>
	152	Facing this internationalization effort, a few users expressed their
	153	concerns. Some of these doubts are presented and discussed, here.
	154
	155	</P>
	156
	157	<UL>
	158	<LI>Smaller groups
	159
	160	Some languages are not spoken by a very large number of people, so people
	161	speaking them sometimes consider that there may not be all that much
	162	demand such versions of free software packages. Moreover, many people
	163	being <EM>into computers</EM>, in some countries, generally seem to prefer
	164	English versions of their software.
	165
	166	On the other end, people might enjoy their own language a lot, and be
	167	very motivated at providing to themselves the pleasure of having their
	168	beloved free software speaking their mother tongue. They do themselves
	169	a personal favor, and do not pay that much attention to the number of
	170	people benefiting of their work.
	171
	172	<LI>Misinterpretation
	173
	174	Other users are shy to push forward their own language, seeing in this
	175	some kind of misplaced propaganda. Someone thought there must be some
	176	users of the language over the networks pestering other people with it.
	177
	178	But any spoken language is worth localization, because there are
	179	people behind the language for whom the language is important and
	180	dear to their hearts.
	181
	182	<LI>Odd translations
	183
	184	The biggest problem is to find the right translations so that
	185	everybody can understand the messages. Translations are usually a
	186	little odd. Some people get used to English, to the extent they may
	187	find translations into their own language "rather pushy, obnoxious
	188	and sometimes even hilarious." As a French speaking man, I have
	189	the experience of those instruction manuals for goods, so poorly
	190	translated in French in Korea or Taiwan...
	191
	192	The fact is that we sometimes have to create a kind of national
	193	computer culture, and this is not easy without the collaboration of
	194	many people liking their mother tongue. This is why translations are
	195	better achieved by people knowing and loving their own language, and
	196	ready to work together at improving the results they obtain.
	197
	198	<LI>Dependencies over the GPL
	199
	200	Some people wonder if using GNU <CODE>gettext</CODE> necessarily brings their package
	201	under the protective wing of the GNU General Public License, when they
	202	do not want to make their program free, or want other kinds of freedom.
	203	The simplest answer is yes.
	204
	205	The mere marking of localizable strings in a package, or conditional
	206	inclusion of a few lines for initialization, is not really including
	207	GPL'ed code. However, the localization routines themselves are under
	208	the GPL and would bring the remainder of the package under the GPL
	209	if they were distributed with it. So, I presume that, for those
	210	for which this is a problem, it could be circumvented by letting to
	211	the end installers the burden of assembling a package prepared for
	212	localization, but not providing the localization routines themselves.
	213
	214	</UL>
	215
	216
	217
	218	<H2><A NAME="SEC60" HREF="gettext_toc.html#TOC60">Organization</A></H2>
	219
	220	<P>
	221	On a larger scale, the true solution would be to organize some kind of
	222	fairly precise set up in which volunteers could participate. I gave
	223	some thought to this idea lately, and realize there will be some
	224	touchy points. I thought of writing to Richard Stallman to launch
	225	such a project, but feel it might be good to shake out the ideas
	226	between ourselves first. Most probably that Linux International has
	227	some experience in the field already, or would like to orchestrate
	228	the volunteer work, maybe. Food for thought, in any case!
	229
	230	</P>
	231	<P>
	232	I guess we have to setup something early, somehow, that will help
	233	many possible contributors of the same language to interlock and avoid
	234	work duplication, and further be put in contact for solving together
	235	problems particular to their tongue (in most languages, there are many
	236	difficulties peculiar to translating technical English). My Swedish
	237	contributor acknowledged these difficulties, and I'm well aware of
	238	them for French.
	239
	240	</P>
	241	<P>
	242	This is surely not a technical issue, but we should manage so the
	243	effort of locale contributors be maximally useful, despite the national
	244	team layer interface between contributors and maintainers.
	245
	246	</P>
	247	<P>
	248	The Translation Project needs some setup for coordinating language
	249	coordinators. Localizing evolving programs will surely
	250	become a permanent and continuous activity in the free software community,
	251	once well started.
	252	The setup should be minimally completed and tested before GNU
	253	<CODE>gettext</CODE> becomes an official reality. The e-mail address
	254	<TT>`translation@iro.umontreal.ca'</TT> has been setup for receiving
	255	offers from volunteers and general e-mail on these topics. This address
	256	reaches the Translation Project coordinator.
	257
	258	</P>
	259
	260
	261
	262	<H3><A NAME="SEC61" HREF="gettext_toc.html#TOC61">Central Coordination</A></H3>
	263
	264	<P>
	265	I also think GNU will need sooner than it thinks, that someone setup
	266	a way to organize and coordinate these groups. Some kind of group
	267	of groups. My opinion is that it would be good that GNU delegates
	268	this task to a small group of collaborating volunteers, shortly.
	269	Perhaps in <TT>`gnu.announce'</TT> a list of this national committee's
	270	can be published.
	271
	272	</P>
	273	<P>
	274	My role as coordinator would simply be to refer to Ulrich any German
	275	speaking volunteer interested to localization of free software packages, and
	276	maybe helping national groups to initially organize, while maintaining
	277	national registries for until national groups are ready to take over.
	278	In fact, the coordinator should ease volunteers to get in contact with
	279	one another for creating national teams, which should then select
	280	one coordinator per language, or country (regionalized language).
	281	If well done, the coordination should be useful without being an
	282	overwhelming task, the time to put delegations in place.
	283
	284	</P>
	285
	286
	287	<H3><A NAME="SEC62" HREF="gettext_toc.html#TOC62">National Teams</A></H3>
	288
	289	<P>
	290	I suggest we look for volunteer coordinators/editors for individual
	291	languages. These people will scan contributions of translation files
	292	for various programs, for their own languages, and will ensure high
	293	and uniform standards of diction.
	294
	295	</P>
	296	<P>
	297	From my current experience with other people in these days, those who
	298	provide localizations are very enthusiastic about the process, and are
	299	more interested in the localization process than in the program they
	300	localize, and want to do many programs, not just one. This seems
	301	to confirm that having a coordinator/editor for each language is a
	302	good idea.
	303
	304	</P>
	305	<P>
	306	We need to choose someone who is good at writing clear and concise
	307	prose in the language in question. That is hard--we can't check
	308	it ourselves. So we need to ask a few people to judge each others'
	309	writing and select the one who is best.
	310
	311	</P>
	312	<P>
	313	I announce my prerelease to a few dozen people, and you would not
	314	believe all the discussions it generated already. I shudder to think
	315	what will happen when this will be launched, for true, officially,
	316	world wide. Who am I to arbitrate between two Czekolsovak users
	317	contradicting each other, for example?
	318
	319	</P>
	320	<P>
	321	I assume that your German is not much better than my French so that
	322	I would not be able to judge about these formulations. What I would
	323	suggest is that for each language there is a group for people who
	324	maintain the PO files and judge about changes. I suspect there will
	325	be cultural differences between how such groups of people will behave.
	326	Some will have relaxed ways, reach consensus easily, and have anyone
	327	of the group relate to the maintainers, while others will fight to
	328	death, organize heavy administrations up to national standards, and
	329	use strict channels.
	330
	331	</P>
	332	<P>
	333	The German team is putting out a good example. Right now, they are
	334	maybe half a dozen people revising translations of each other and
	335	discussing the linguistic issues. I do not even have all the names.
	336	Ulrich Drepper is taking care of coordinating the German team.
	337	He subscribed to all my pretest lists, so I do not even have to warn
	338	him specifically of incoming releases.
	339
	340	</P>
	341	<P>
	342	I'm sure, that is a good idea to get teams for each language working
	343	on translations. That will make the translations better and more
	344	consistent.
	345
	346	</P>
	347
	348
	349
	350	<H4><A NAME="SEC63" HREF="gettext_toc.html#TOC63">Sub-Cultures</A></H4>
	351
	352	<P>
	353	Taking French for example, there are a few sub-cultures around computers
	354	which developed diverging vocabularies. Picking volunteers here and
	355	there without addressing this problem in an organized way, soon in the
	356	project, might produce a distasteful mix of internationalized programs,
	357	and possibly trigger endless quarrels among those who really care.
	358
	359	</P>
	360	<P>
	361	Keeping some kind of unity in the way French localization of
	362	internationalized programs is achieved is a difficult (and delicate) job.
	363	Knowing the latin character of French people (:-), if we take this
	364	the wrong way, we could end up nowhere, or spoil a lot of energies.
	365	Maybe we should begin to address this problem seriously <EM>before</EM>
	366	GNU <CODE>gettext</CODE> become officially published. And I suspect that this
	367	means soon!
	368
	369	</P>
	370
	371
	372	<H4><A NAME="SEC64" HREF="gettext_toc.html#TOC64">Organizational Ideas</A></H4>
	373
	374	<P>
	375	I expect the next big changes after the official release. Please note
	376	that I use the German translation of the short GPL message. We need
	377	to set a few good examples before the localization goes out for true
	378	in the free software community. Here are a few points to discuss:
	379
	380	</P>
	381
	382	<UL>
	383	<LI>
	384
	385	Each group should have one FTP server (at least one master).
	386
	387	<LI>
	388
	389	The files on the server should reflect the latest version (of
	390	course!) and it should also contain a RCS directory with the
	391	corresponding archives (I don't have this now).
	392
	393	<LI>
	394
	395	There should also be a ChangeLog file (this is more useful than the
	396	RCS archive but can be generated automatically from the later by
	397	Emacs).
	398
	399	<LI>
	400
	401	A <STRONG>core group</STRONG> should judge about questionable changes (for now
	402	this group consists solely by me but I ask some others occasionally;
	403	this also seems to work).
	404
	405	</UL>
	406
	407
	408
	409	<H3><A NAME="SEC65" HREF="gettext_toc.html#TOC65">Mailing Lists</A></H3>
	410
	411	<P>
	412	If we get any inquiries about GNU <CODE>gettext</CODE>, send them on to:
	413
	414	</P>
	415
	416	<PRE>
	417	<TT>`translation@iro.umontreal.ca'</TT>
	418	</PRE>
	419
	420	<P>
	421	The <TT>`*-pretest'</TT> lists are quite useful to me, maybe the idea could
	422	be generalized to many GNU, and non-GNU packages. But each maintainer
	423	his/her way!
	424
	425	</P>
	426	<P>
	427	Fran@,{c}ois, we have a mechanism in place here at
	428	<TT>`gnu.ai.mit.edu'</TT> to track teams, support mailing lists for
	429	them and log members. We have a slight preference that you use it.
	430	If this is OK with you, I can get you clued in.
	431
	432	</P>
	433	<P>
	434	Things are changing! A few years ago, when Daniel Fekete and I
	435	asked for a mailing list for GNU localization, nested at the FSF, we
	436	were politely invited to organize it anywhere else, and so did we.
	437	For communicating with my pretesters, I later made a handful of
	438	mailing lists located at iro.umontreal.ca and administrated by
	439	<CODE>majordomo</CODE>. These lists have been <EM>very</EM> dependable
	440	so far...
	441
	442	</P>
	443	<P>
	444	I suspect that the German team will organize itself a mailing list
	445	located in Germany, and so forth for other countries. But before they
	446	organize for true, it could surely be useful to offer mailing lists
	447	located at the FSF to each national team. So yes, please explain me
	448	how I should proceed to create and handle them.
	449
	450	</P>
	451	<P>
	452	We should create temporary mailing lists, one per country, to help
	453	people organize. Temporary, because once regrouped and structured, it
	454	would be fair the volunteers from country bring back <EM>their</EM> list
	455	in there and manage it as they want. My feeling is that, in the long
	456	run, each team should run its own list, from within their country.
	457	There also should be some central list to which all teams could
	458	subscribe as they see fit, as long as each team is represented in it.
	459
	460	</P>
	461
	462
	463	<H2><A NAME="SEC66" HREF="gettext_toc.html#TOC66">Information Flow</A></H2>
	464
	465	<P>
	466	There will surely be some discussion about this messages after the
	467	packages are finally released. If people now send you some proposals
	468	for better messages, how do you proceed? Jim, please note that
	469	right now, as I put forward nearly a dozen of localizable programs, I
	470	receive both the translations and the coordination concerns about them.
	471
	472	</P>
	473	<P>
	474	If I put one of my things to pretest, Ulrich receives the announcement
	475	and passes it on to the German team, who make last minute revisions.
	476	Then he submits the translation files to me <EM>as the maintainer</EM>.
	477	For free packages I do not maintain, I would not even hear about it.
	478	This scheme could be made to work for the whole Translation Project,
	479	I think. For security reasons, maybe Ulrich (national coordinators,
	480	in fact) should update central registry kept at the Translation Project
	481	(Jim, me, or Len's recruits) once in a while.
	482
	483	</P>
	484	<P>
	485	In December/January, I was aggressively ready to internationalize
	486	all of GNU, giving myself the duty of one small GNU package per week
	487	or so, taking many weeks or months for bigger packages. But it does
	488	not work this way. I first did all the things I'm responsible for.
	489	I've nothing against some missionary work on other maintainers, but
	490	I'm also loosing a lot of energy over it--same debates over again.
	491
	492	</P>
	493	<P>
	494	And when the first localized packages are released we'll get a lot of
	495	responses about ugly translations :-). Surely, and we need to have
	496	beforehand a fairly good idea about how to handle the information
	497	flow between the national teams and the package maintainers.
	498
	499	</P>
	500	<P>
	501	Please start saving somewhere a quick history of each PO file. I know
	502	for sure that the file format will change, allowing for comments.
	503	It would be nice that each file has a kind of log, and references for
	504	those who want to submit comments or gripes, or otherwise contribute.
	505	I sent a proposal for a fast and flexible format, but it is not
	506	receiving acceptance yet by the GNU deciders. I'll tell you when I
	507	have more information about this.
	508
	509	</P>
	510	<P><HR><P>
	511	<p>Go to the <A HREF="gettext_1.html">first</A>, <A HREF="gettext_8.html">previous</A>, <A HREF="gettext_10.html">next</A>, <A HREF="gettext_12.html">last</A> section, <A HREF="gettext_toc.html">table of contents</A>.
	512	</BODY>
	513	</HTML>